Wednesday, February 2, 2011
Revolutions....& today
Considering that we have been talking about both the American & French revolutions and that currently the people of Egypt are protesting for a change in their country, what do you think finally motivates people to ask for/demand a change? What is it that finally convinces people to act? How does that desire for change mesh with the desire to maintain peace and peace itself?
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Talking about the American and French revolutions and how things are in Egypt, I believe two factors contribute to what motivates people to make a change. One of the factors would help motivate people is they have had enough with the ruler and the rules. Many have different ideas and beliefs so this influences what is right ant wrong to them. Another factor is someone actually stands up for what they believe. During the French revolution, no one thought that monarchy would be the best for France. Now in Egypt, citizens believe that it is time for a new ruler. I believe other people convinces people to act a certain way as well as their beliefs. Sometimes the desire to change will cause wars and lots of fights. If this happens for a long time, eventually people would want to maintain peace and end the war. That is how sometimes change is a good thing for everyone one.
ReplyDeleteThese two events have their similarities. First off both of them want reform they want the current ruler to step down from power. The American and French Revolution wanted a change of government just like how the people in Egypt want. There are many ways that can trigger a start of a revolution. There's a line that has been crossed, a boundary that has been pushed, or even a bubble that has been popped. The rulers were hanging their people by a thread and that thread snapped now everyone is scattering around trying to get at their ruler. It could be like someone getting picked on, on most days they can take it but there's that day where they're in a bad mood and snap and goes and fights against the person picking on them. Now this is what happened in all three cases. The "picker" or the ruler was picking on the person or America/France/Egypt. Now one day America/France/Egypt snapped and got in a fight with the ruler. That could be a motivation for them to ask for change just being tired of the same thing. Change is a good enough motive for me.
ReplyDeleteBy talking about both the American & French revolutions and what is happing in Egypt right now. I think when the ruler of the country has pushed the people over the top it motivates the people to ask for change. If the change does not occur they may resolve to violence in general. I also believe that General Will also motivates people to protest. General Will motivated the American and French revolution for sure. If nothing happens when asked in a polite manner and more implications are placed upon the country the people will finally act. The desire for change meshes with the desire to maintain peace and peace itself by in a civilized manner asking for change. If it is later just ignored or if the exact opposite occurs then peace may be broken. The country will usually only depend on violence if what they want doesn't occur. So pretty much if the desire of the General Will is not not met then the people will ask for change if the change is not met then the people may result in a violent revolution. If the change is met then the general will will be met.
ReplyDeleteI think that what finally motivates people to demand for a change is when whatever is happening affects them directly in a negative way. When things are going totally wrong for them then they will demand for a change but as long as they well off, they won't. What finally convinces people to act is when they don't not get everything that they need to survive, when they don't get what they need. For example, if they start to starve because they can't afford food because of the prices going up. Or when they lose their job or source of income and they can't buy what they need. That desire for change meshes with the desire to maintain peace and peace itself when people start to ponder about why things are the way they are and then they start to think about how maybe peace could make the world a better place and then they wouldn't have to worry about not getting what they need to survive. They only think about peace and how it would be great thing for the world because they only think about it benefiting themselves. It all comes down to the nature of man being selfish because they only think about themselves.
ReplyDeleteWhat affects people to change is hunger. One of the main causes of the French Revolution was the fact that they couldn't afford bread to eat. They could deal with all the other aspects that were wrong with their government, but when it came to the point that they could not eat sufficiently they began to revolt. If you look at the American Revolution, the driving force was greed. The early colonists were being screwed over by Britain. They wanted to make more money, which they could in turn use to buy things- namely food. Perhaps a better term than hunger would be survival, yet it essence that's what it is. The desire to maintain peace is to create a stable environment in which one does not have to constantly focus on survival.
ReplyDeleteTeresita, I really liked your post because you were right on and gave great examples of why people finally rebel. I think you're examples were exact and that you obviously knew exactly what you wanted to say. Great job!
ReplyDeleteDeep, I agree with your post because I think the General Will has a lot to do with it. I think that people are selfish and that when they finally want their way, they rebel to get it. Very good post, I liked your points.
I think that the people wanting change in their country is what motivates them the most to ask/demand for a new ruler. Those people who have a strong desire for change will talk to their friends or relative and voice their opinion and word gets around and people agree and also feel that change will be helpful and beneficial. It seems that change is desired more when..well things are just not interesting anymore. For example, most girls played with dolls when they were younger. We loved them for a little while and then we got bored and wanted something else! Same thing, different story. Either the ruler wasn't doing what they should be for the people as a whole, or they were just getting bored with all the same stuff. Peace comes when people get what they want. If they want a new king and they don't get a new king, then they will probably be angry causing problems and...not peace.
ReplyDeleteCarlos,
ReplyDeleteI kind of "LOL"ed when you said the crossing the line, pushing the boundary, and popping a bubble. I thought you had really good points in your comment. I agree that change is what motivates people the most. FANTASTIQUE!! ha
Kevin,
I liked your points about people wanting to change because of hunger and how you pointed out the greed part. People were mad when they didn't get what they wanted but when it came to food than that was just really really bad. GOOD JOB!
I think people are finally motivated to ask for or demand change when they have put up with enough and they are hunger or in need of something that is needed for survival. For example, if something today took away or resources so Americans couldn't survive, we wouldn't all just sit around, we'd rebel so we could survive and continue living or lives. I think that the French and American Revolutions go along with this because when they finally wanted to be separate countries, the main factor for this was getting the things they needed to survive and selfishness to prosper and have money. An example of this is how Americans were upset with the taxes. This doesn't exactly make it impossible for a human to survive but being the selfish humans we are, the Americans wanted to have the money instead of British getting the money. Being selfish also blends with wanted peace because if the peace isn't there then every human experiences the disrupted peace. Being selfish means that humans want to maintain and promote the peace so their life doesn't have to disrupted as well.
ReplyDeleteI think that there are a couple factors that influence that finally motivate people. One is, like Teresita said, when people are directly affected. For example, it is one thing to hear that your country in an economic crisis, but until someone in your family can't get a job or can't pay for something you need, you don't realize just how bad it is. It's one thing to hear about it, but it's completely different to actually live it. Another thing that I believe influences when people really begin to act against something they want to reform is a leader. Most people are followers, and even though they have beliefs and feelings, most are too afraid to stand up against something alone. Once there are several revolutionists people aren't so afraid to stand up against something, even as big as their country's government. It is said that there is strength in numbers. Of course, no matter how much the protesters want a better government, they don't want to endanger their own lives, or their families, and they most likely don't want to endanger their home. This would be why protests start out peacefully. Also, by fighting their government with violence they are risking hypocrisy, becoming no better than the government they are protesting against.
ReplyDeleteLike many of my classmates, I think that what makes people finally start fighting for a change is because they have been pushed up to their limit dealing with their government's bull. The American and French Revolution happened several years ago, but a revolution in egypt has erupted today. The people want their leaders to lose power so they can start the process of changing to what they want their government to be like. People not only start realizing that they want a change, but they start acting upon it. I think it's hard for people to still maintain peace during a revolution. They see that using words and protesting doesn't affect the ruler of their country. People become outraged and turn to violence to ensure that they will in some way gain the change they believe that they deserve.
ReplyDeleteDeep- I totally agree with what you said about people using violence. If changes don't occur while people are being polite, they turn to violence.
ReplyDeleteSally-I think you're right. People are mostly looking for survival. They will do anything to be able to achieve that.
I think that people are motivated to make changes when their rights are taken away. Not necessarily all rights, but more so the rights that effect their lives in a serious condition. I think that what convinces them to act is when the situation gets to the point of survival. Once people's lives are on steak, they don't really have a choice but to do something about it to change the ways in order for them to survive. I think that if enough people feel this way, they will do something about it, such as the French and American Revolutions. However, sometimes violence is involved, such as Napoleon's way of fighting. I think that people would rather have peace because they wouldn't have to worry about turning to violence and they know that their rights would stay fair and not be taken away or taken advantage of.
ReplyDeletePeople will only put up with things for so long, but once their state of well being is threatened, they react. Like in the American Revolution the colonists were fed up the King they put up with his rule for awhile but eventually more events and the ideas of the Enlightenment philosophers influenced them to break apart from Great Britain. In the French Revolution the well being of the third estate was in a way being threatened. They were forced to pay taxes and high prices for goods that they needed such as food, especially bread. In this way their well being was being threatened because if they couldn't afford it they would go hungry. During times of revolution countries are not in a state of peace because many times violence must be implemented in order to gain what one desires.
ReplyDeleteI would have to say that the motives of the people wanting more for a change. That it would be their rights as civil people that they deserve more. Either the people feel that their rights are not being meet. Or the ruler/leader is not meeting the requirements that the people require. So people do voice their opinion like in the French Revolution. I feel that people do get bored, with a leader that their hunger is not meet. SO I think that it’s the people’s rights to have more of an established government. If a revolt is what it takes than so be it.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, people are finally motivated to ask for/ demand for a change, when their own demands aren’t being met. Or, when one is personally affected by the effects, as many of my classmates have mentioned before. And also when they just get too sick and tired to put up with the conditions anymore. In the American Revolution, the British colonists took notice to the fact that King was limiting, or violating, many of their rights. Essentially, on the King's behalf, the Social Contract was broken. According to Tom Paine's idea for a Social Contract, the Colonists were in every right to separate themselves from the King, seeing as he wasn't protecting their rights. In the French Revolution, King Louis was planning on taxing the Nobles because he wanted more money. But, the Nobles took their own initiative and called upon the help of the Estates General. Today in Egypt people are protesting because they aren't happy with the high levels of corruption and poverty, as well as an autocratic government. In turn, they have started protesting in an attempt to change their conditions.
ReplyDeleteDiana - There were some parts of your post that I agreed with, but others that I disagreed with too. When people are fed up with their ruler and their rules/ laws, they're inevitably going to speak out against the ruler and their rules. And of course, everyone had their own opinions as well. I don't so much agree with what you said about how people convince others to act a certain way and believe a certain way. If this is the case, then the person who is letting themselves be convinced to act and believe differently, isn't really thinking and acting how they want to, but instead how someone else wants them to. Also, no one can force someone else to act and think a certain way, they can just influence them. I hope that makes sense because it sounded way better in my head.
Deep - I too agree that the ruler of Egypt has pushed people far past their limits, which is why they are now protesting. After thinking about it for a bit, I realize that the want for change is in some ways supported by peace. Even if the methods that are used to bring about change eventually change to hostile or violent because people's pleas are ignored. You did a nice job of summing everything up: "if the change is met then the general will will be met."
After this week’s lectures and discussions I think there are multiple reasons behind the motivation for change for people. For example, a king has ultimate power and can basically do what ever he wants. Then it goes down to the nobles and so forth, the power keeps lessening. Depending what a persons’ status, this outlined mostly how they would live their lives. With a king ruling that, left many people with poor jobs that paid very little money. The hunger that they had and all the hard work made them desire a change. This hunger and desire was what made a change, having so many people suffering and only a selected few live in luxury was not fair. The “lower statuses” came together and well made the change they deserved.
ReplyDeleteI think that what finally motivates people to act is survival. It all goes back to the whole being "selfish" concept. Once the people start getting hungry and need food to survive they will do what they have to in order to survive. In other words they will ask for a change or demand. They want survival but they also know that by trying to do so they might kill others. In order to survive they all need to work together because they need help and can't really do it on their own. The government will not change just because one person demands it which is when the "general will" comes into place. When the general will asks for something normally the government will listen in order to keep everyone happy or at least majority of the people. In order for the peace the people have to agree and if what they want is to survive they will do so.
ReplyDeleteDeep- I think what you have stated is well said. The general will was a major motivation for the American and French revolution. If people have asked multiple times for changed and are ignored they should push the limit even if it means war.
ReplyDeleteSally- You made a very good point. People who have desire change
would do whatever it takes to state their opinion and have it be heard. "Girls" are smart and will somehow get their way in the end.
Sydney-- I really liked your comment, especially the very last few sentences that described selfishness as a human nature that's derived in order to not lead a disruptive life, or something along those lines. It shows that being selfish in itself is not necessarily bad, only when it's taken to the extreme.
ReplyDeleteJessica-- Awesome job explaining why people seek change. You can know about wars and stuff and know how bad they are, but until you experience it on a personal level you don't necessarily understand it. The driving factor behind the American and French Revolutions was that everyone was experiencing the same 'inequality.'Since they all felt the same way, it was only a matter of time before they rallied together and revolted.
Kevin,
ReplyDeleteI agree that what affects people to change is hunger. People will do what they have to in order to survive and if that means demanding change they will do it and/or revolt. Like you I believe it's survival that strives people to demand change and act.
Laura,
I don't understand what you were trying to state ar first, but on the last part where you state that it is hunger I do agree. The hunger and need to survive is what creates the desire for change. They can live without many things but when it comes to being fed or eating they will not accept it and stay hungry for they want to survive.
Considering that we have been talking about both the American and French revolution and that the people of Egypt are protesting for a change in their country, I think that what motivates people to ask for/demand for a change in their country is the affect it has on them. From what I have heard, the ruler has been ruling for a long time and that the government is increasing taxes on schools. I guess the people are ready for a change. Also, who wouldn’t protest for unnecessary tax increase.
ReplyDeleteIn reality of what we have been "talking" about the American and French revolutions and how the people in Egypt are protesting in their country we can see the same relationship of the people wanting change for the better and having their needs met. Of course the driving point of when man actually wants the change to occur is when it effects them negatively. It all goes back to the idea of selfishness and trying to maintain peace. Another thing with maintaining peace is to keep the people satisfied and to be able to allow them to have some ideal rights. If the government were to start increasing taxes on unnecessary items than less and less people would buy those items and focus on the essentials or only up till the point where they cannot afford them any longer.
ReplyDeleteSally
ReplyDelete- Well, I agree with some of what you said...however, I think there's more than just a desire for change that is necessary for people to actually rise up against their country's government. For example, many Americans would agree that things in this country need to change; healthcare, the economy, education, our involvement in wars overseas, etc., however, we are not yet at the point to violently protest against our government.
Stefani
- Good post. I thought you did a good job explaining that not only do people revolt when their needs/demands aren't being met, but also when the government is restricting the people's rights. Good job. :)
I believe people are motivated to make changes when they believe the ruler is causing their quality of life to decrease, instead of increase or stay the same. People can be satisfied under rulers who don't rock the boat and keep their lives the same or even improve them, but at the moment their lives begin to get worse because of a ruler, the idea of revolting takes root in the minds of people. They see no reason as to why one person should have the ability to make so many others' lives worse and so they revolt to take away that ability. The desire for change coincides with the desire for peace because when people are angry and tensions rise, there is no peace. Once the changes have been made however, people's anger will cease, if only for awhile, creating a (temporary) peace.
ReplyDeleteHugo - I totally agree with your idea that the people feel like they should be satisfied in order to not want to revolt. I also really like that you mentioned that the people will react only when things start going downhill. I believe selfishness does have something to do with it, however, I also believe that another reason for revolting may be the pride of humans, in that they all believe they are superior to the other.
ReplyDeleteRosie - I agree that survival is definitely a good reason to want to revolt. However, I don't know many people that would wait until that was the main issue before at least attempting to take action. I'm also not sure that the general will can ensure peace, just because "general will" is majority, and with every majority there is also a minority to dissent. Since we don't get rid of them as Rousseaus suggested, they are still out there, and unless absolutely everyone is satisfied and agrees on something, I don't think there can ever be true peace.
The last straw for a group of people that motivates them to ask or demand for change is when important things like food supply, employment, education, and health take a noticeably negative turn, and continue to get worse. However, there are two types of people in this world: ones who lead and ones who follow. For people to be convinced to act, those who are capable of leading must step forward and suggest such actions. These ideas of desires for better conditions is simply another way of saying desires for peace. Better conditions will please everyone, and thus there will be peace.
ReplyDeleteKelli,
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with what you said about people's unhappiness with the decrease of quality in their lives, and thus causing them to take action. Egypt is the perfect example, things haven't been all the great in the first place over there but they haven't really known any different for a while. Therefore, obviously it took things to get a lot worse for the people over there to take their protests to such and extreme.
Estefania,
I can agree with what you had to say about the affects of when personal demands aren't met because I believe that slightly goes along with my idea of leaders taking control. When someone who has a tendency to lead isn't personally pleased with conditions, that is when he/she will step forward for everyone else.
Carlos-
ReplyDeleteYour post made me think you had a strong voice, like if you were giving a speech. :) Other than that I do agree with your post because the Revolutions did start so that the government could change. I like how you used analogies to explain how things are.
Irma-
You had a good point about how people start to do things in order to change how the government is dealing things.
Well, theres gotta be a point where you need change. In the American and French Revolutions, change was wanted and needed. When somebody has total control over money, taxes, and everything else, you just kind of get sick of it. When having somebody control for so long, itd be great to see some change and maybe see new ideas in the case of the people of egypt. Sometimes, not having change may put some people over the edge, and by making change, you can make peace in some cases.
ReplyDeleteRosie,
I agree, its all about surviving. You always want what is best, so if people are taking money away from you, you gotta do what is best.
Olivia,
Youre right when you say that people demand change when food, supplies, and just to survive is needed. In that case, the Americans wanted freedom.
Carlos,
ReplyDeleteI believe what you wrote. People in egypt want their ruler to have less power. I like the example you used.
Jessica,
I agree mostly with what you said but how do the people risk hypocrisy? I do not understand what you are saying with that.
Irma- I kind of agree with your post but is that the only thing that affects them? I think that you should have used more examples. You only said one thing and you were very broad. You did an ok job.
ReplyDeleteOlivia- I agree with the first part of your post but then the other parts I don't. There are not only two kinds of people in this world. People are not just either followers or leaders. They could be followers who could be leaders or they could be leaders who are meant to be followers. What I am saying is that there can also be in the middle people. Also just because conditions are good and favorable to all does not mean that there will be peace. Even when conditions are good people will just want more. People will likely never be content with what they have. Now a days more is less, but less is not more. That is just how it is. Good job though!
People finally decide to try to change their country when they are certain that they have enough strength and people to do so. Usually, they put up with a ruler because they have no other choice. They know that if a small amount of people tried to protest and change, they would not survive. However, once they gather strength in numbers, they finally feel confident enough to attempt to change the country. This, however, will only happen when enough people are fed up with the ruler that they have and throw away that fear of voicing their opinion. Often, they don't say anything for fear of the government taking some action against them. The government does this to silence their opinion and try to maintain their rule, but as soon as more and more people abandon their fear of government and start banding together, they begin to demand change. Because of this, other people begin to understand their cause and then it snowballs into one giant group of protesters.
ReplyDeleteThe desire to change and the desire to maintain are wanted, but aren't likely to be present together. Change requires some sort of force, which in most cases may be violence. The people put aside their desire to maintain peace and fight for their change. However, they fight for this change keeping in mind their goal of a better country and, of course, peace. While they fight, they may not have peace, but if everything works out their way, they have peace in the end.
Irma
ReplyDelete- What I mean is that when people respond to their government with violence, they are, in turn, becoming no better than the government of which they are protesting. It would be like saying "it's not okay for you to hurt us, but we're going to hurt you..." I think that that would be a reason why a people would want to maintain peace, if possible.
Olivia-- I agree with your post, i think it kind of goes with mine on how people look for change when their state of well being is being threatened.
ReplyDeleteAlex-- I agree with your post also. People desire change when they feel that their needs aren't being met. People will also look for change when they get bored with the conditions, for example how the third estate finally became fed up with how they were treated and taxed by the first estate.
What motivates people is the desire to change. The people from both the American and French revolutions were tired of how things were being run. Like Carlos said, there's a border line, and the king finally pushed the people passed this border line which motivated them for a change in how things were being lead. An example could be like what Jessica was saying and how many people are followers, but everyone has their own ideas and opinions, but are too afraid to say anything. When they are finally living in that situation where whatever decision the king makes will decide that persons' fate, motivates them to act and ask for a change. This is what happened that sparked the American and French revolution.
ReplyDeleteCarlos- I agree with you, there is to some extent that the king may rule over the people, but once it pass this certain boundary, it will the cause the people to act.
Deep- I must agree that the General Will had a huge part in starting both the revolutions.
Hugo,
ReplyDeleteI like how you point out that in order to keep peace, the government has to keep the people satisfied. Because they would be satisfied, they'd have no reason to revolt or be angry.
Sergio,
I agree that people get sick of just one person controlling everything over an extended period of time. Besides them being sick of the way the government treats them, they also start to wonder how it would be like to have a different ruler and see change in their countries and they wonder how much better their country could be under a different ruler or system of government.
Franklin,
ReplyDeleteI like the fact how you keep on using examples from other students posts and testify them as your own. Their ideas are correct and I would like to see your opinion on Egypt as well. You can do better.
Sergio,
Good job man on the fact that people are sick of others trying to control everything for extended periods of time. Man in reality wants to succeed others and don't want to be controlled by one other. Good job.
Franklin- I agree that what motivates them is that they want change. I agree with what you had to say and you stated specific ideas listed by some of our class mates. Is the Egypt the same situation according to you?
ReplyDeleteIrma- What affect is put upon the people? I think overall that with out the General Will of the people. The people would allow taxes to be put upon them. If there is not anybody who is willing to step and and go against it nothing will be changed. People would complain but they would still follow the rules such as unnecessary tax increases. In general if you say that they revolted because of money I see where your coming from but is that the only striving point in the revolutions.
I think that the whole revolt in Egypt is a result of years of maltreatment from the government. People can put up with a lot; you would be surprised to see just how much. However, after awhile the humble subordinates fight back. As for what motivates this huge change I think the answer is simple. A person needs their basic needs taken care of. A malicious government is taking that from them. Yet, a good citizen would never speak out against their government ..that is ….alone. A group, has a lot more power. I think when you have people that have been treated badly for years, all it takes is one very persuasive person to get them to take action. One leader to unite a nation. Peace it not really an option, change is the only thing they desire. They know that it will become dark and chaotic before the change they want will come. They however, are ready and willing to wait and fight.
ReplyDeleteRosie – I love that you said that it is about survival I think that is very true. These poor people have to struggle to survive because their government is not getting them what they need.
ReplyDeleteIrma- I think the tax increase was kind of the last straw for some of the people. They are being treated badly already , and now they have to pay the government even more. Who does that?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, people ask for change when they feel that their money, lives, or property is at stake. For example, in the American Revolution, the colonists were pissed mainly about paying taxes to and buying expensive goods from Great Britain, so they drafted a constitution, and fought for it to be implemented. Also, they were angry that British troops would occasionally be ordered to stay in their homes, therefore violating the colonist's privacy and sometimes damaging their property. During the French Revolution, when King Louis XIV asked for military support, the people thought of it as a threat to their lives.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure of the problems in Egypt. I think people were mainly just tired of being ruled by one person, and thought that they would be better represented with a different type of government.