This is the place where we will post our thoughts about what we are discussing in class.
Thursday, September 23, 2010
Expansion of Islam
What interested/surprised you about the expansion of Islam during the time period you researched? Why or why not? How does this compare with the expansion of Judaism & Christianity? Does this change how you view any of the faiths? Why or why not?
What surprised me about the expansion of Islam during the Abbassid period is that they had lots of power during their time period. It surprised me because they some how managed to keep power for so long. To be exact it's from 749 to 1258 A.D. They also had many countries that they had power in. For example, India, Spain, North Africa, Iranian, and parts of the European world. This compares because most of the followers of Islam actually live in these places now. I do not think that it changes my view over Islam.
I thought that it was interesting how after Wallid I died there was an earthquake that destroyed part of the Dome of the Rock and Mosque. What i thought was surprising is that there were a lot of leaders within the Umayyad empire. From what I read, one of the leaders, Umar B. abdal- aziz, expanded Islam peacefully. This has not yet changed my view over Islam.
What interested me about the topic that I researched was that there were so many places that the Four Righteous Caliphs conquered. It interests me because I don’t know how they could have conquered all that land. This compares in that special tax was put on those who did not follow that Islamic Religion as in the expansion of Judaism and Christianity they also did similar things like that. It does not change my view of faith because I have my own beliefs and its something that I don’t intend to change.
What surprised me about the Abbasside Dynasty is that they moved their capital from Damascus to Bagdad. That this was a shift in the dynasty and were Islam did spread. That the Abbasside Empire ruled for a long time and was very successful, they moved their capital from Damascus to Bagdad. Then later years they were conquered. The Dynasty did spread Islam, but on the flip side they were in war quite often cause of the spread. But from my research I learned a lot at the same time it’s a lot to take in and to get a good grip on. But I did find it very interesting, on all the information.
I had many interesting and surprising moments when learning about the Abbasid Dynasty. I had never heard about the Abbasid dynasty before researching it. The Abbasids ruled for a very long time in different places. Baghdad is one of the main important places for the Abbasids. Other major cities were Cairo and Damascus. Cairo was built in Egypt after the Shi'ites were told to leave by Abbasids. Damascus was the old capital for the Abbasids. Nothing I have learned changed my faith but its very intersting.
What amazed me was the fact that three out of the four leaders were assassinated. This week I also learned that Demascus is another holy city like Mecca. Christianity went through a bunch of Martyrs before they became an official religion. They went through assassinations too. This really didn't change my view on the faith but instead expanded on the ideas of the faith
I studied the Umayyad Dynasty. It was neat to be able learn about the history of Muslims, and to comprehend more of how their religion spread. I thought that Uthman was a pretty smart guy to spread out his family throughout the territory, and basically put dynastic succesion into play. Judaism and Christianity were more subtle when it came to converting people, but Islam in a way forced their people to follow their faith. They also were not persecuted as the Christians and Jews were. This doesn't really change my opinion about any of the faiths.
During researching the Abassids, I learned that they were in controll for many years at one time. I think this is fascinating because not many dynasties can hold power that long. Also, I think it was interesting how much control they had and how they were able to conquer other countries, for example, lots of Asia and around India. This compares to the spread of Judaism and Christianity because these places were conquered just like the Abassids conquered. This doesn't change how I feel about the faiths because my opinions are still the same and I think that every religion has its on conquer and expanding methods.
When researching information about the Four Caliphs, it was interesting to see how their methods of spreading Islam were similar to the means the Secular Kings and Church used in Christianity. The Caliphs conquered people and eventually converted them into Islam. Similar to Christianity whereas the Kings conquered people, then the Church would convert them. It doesn't really change my views on any of faiths. Mainly, it just makes me think that people someway or another are going to be forced into doing something they don't want to.
I guess what surprised me to learn was that Islam had spread through conquering. I'd always thought that it just gradually and peacefully spread throughout parts of Europe and Asia, not that they had conquered countries and huge cities. I think this is almost completely contrary with how Judaism and spread. While they used more peaceful methods, such as explaining about how their religion worked and inviting people into it, Islam used conquering and taxes on other religions to help convert people. However, it does seem closer to Christianity. The secular kings conquered people and spread their religion in almost the same way. This doesn't really change my view on any of the faiths, except furthering my belief that Muslims are very dedicated and hardworking when it comes to their faith.
I was somewhat surprised by the things I found out about the Seljuk Turks. Learning about how they declined in power was the most surprising. To think that they're kingdom can slowly collapse after the death of just one ruler is very intriguing. The way they spread was by conquering different places which I think is probably the most common way to do it. I think Judaism and Christianity spread more by bringing others to follow their cultures. My view of these faiths hasn't really changed though because every faith just happens to be different.
Stefani: I agree with your opinions on how Christianity and Islam spread in almost the same way. I think that oftentimes, people are forced into things they don't want to do, so I agree with you there.
Carlos: I was also surprised that three out of the four caliphs were assassinated. It seems pretty crazy to think that one after another was just murdered so that people could have a leader they'd like.
I was fortunate to study the Seljuk Turks, who ruled or took over the Abassids. But it amazes me how many empires were spreading the same religion. Although, they decided to spread Islam by conquering and expanding their domain. But Judaism and Christianity who were able to spread their religion in a more peaceful way, but this does not mean that they didn't conquer. I believe that every religion has their own little of how they conquered to expand their religion. My opinion for the faith thought, does not change, but I do feel like I know more about the religion then how I did before.
Sally, It really seems like you studied it up on your topic. Good job! I feel like maybe I could even learn from what you said.
Irma, The Umayyad seem to have a little something similar to the Seljuk Turks. After one leader died it seemed like they just fell apart. But you seem like you found out some good information.
I did research over the Seljuk Turks. I didn't know anything about them so all of what I learned was new and interesting to me.The empire was at its peak when the first three rulers of the dynasty were in power, they were Tugrul Bey, Alp Arslan, and Malik Shah. It was interesting to me that after the reign of Malik Shah the empire began to decline because in a sense the rulers that followed weren't fit for the job, and it didn't help that the Seljuk Empire was always under constant pressure from the Crusaders in the west, the Arabs in the South and Mongols in the east. The Seljuk Turks were able to spread Islam by conquering other regions, this is similar to how Christianity was spread. The King would conquer a territory and then the Christian Church would go in and convert them. This doesn't really change my opinions on any of the faiths because each faith used a method of spreading their religion and it seemed to work pretty well for all of them.
I was not entirely surprised by what the Umayyads did to expand Islam. It was pretty much conquer lands. What surprised me was the fact that they didn't want people at first because they knew that the more people they obtained the more they would have to share their riches with the people. The only person that seemed to expand Islam peacefully was Umar B. abdal-aziz. Well it compared rather similar to the expansion of both Christianity and Judaism except in the fact that they did it forcefully but they did conquer land like them. An interesting fact that caught my eye was when Walid the 1st died and earthquake occurred destroying part of the Dome of the Rock and the great Mosque. It did not change my view on the Islamic faith at all.
There were many things that interested my about the expansion of Islam during the time period I researched. I researched the Abassids Calph this was thought to be the people who were Muhammed's Uncle's descendants. They beat the Ummyads to gain control. Thad power for a very long time. They spread from West Asia all the Way to North Africa. I thought it was very interesting. The expanision processes were very different. The Christians tried to convert. The Abassids just conquered an area and ruled it. I think that using war to gain territory is not very helpful so I would say convert the people who want to be converted or atleast teach them about the religion and expand in ways that the people who want to be Muslim can be Muslim by being loyal to territory. This concept itself does not change how I view the different beliefs but the whole learning about the Hajj and just learning does because it explains what the religion is about.
Well, what I learned about the Four Caliphs is that they spread the Muslim religion by conquering. I think that this method was quite different from how Christianity and Judaism was spread. It seems to me like Christianity was spread more through trickery, than brute force. Those spreading the Christian religion tried to make the transition easy so that a lot of people would do it. Honestly, it doesn’t change the way I feel about the Muslim faith, or Christianity or Judaism, for that matter. It may not look so good that the Muslim religion was spread by force, but let’s not forget that there are shady parts to Christianity’s past as well.
Jessica-- I liked what you said about how Christianity spread more through trickery then brute force. In my blog I said that in spread through force but they didn't directly conquer the people themselves, but I do understand what you mean about how it conquered through trickery because the Kings would take over a territory and while the people were at their weakest point they would them convert them.
Keyli-- I too founded it very surprising but at the same time interesting that a whole empire could collapse following the death of one man, who in this case was Malik Shah.
What interested me about Islamic expansion during the Seljuk Turk dynasty was both the fact that they had very little to no people to convert over the vas amount land that they initially controlled, seeing as how most were already Muslims. However, it was very captivating to me how they managed to take over the Byzantine Empire despite their significantly smaller army. Because conquering was the way in which they gained control, I believe Christianity and Islam share that characteristic. Christianity was also spread to non-Christians by defeating. I understand that that was a common way to obtain jurisdiction in different reasons so it does not change my views about the faith.
The Umayyad clan was not from Mecca and they didn't always follow Muhammad or weren't always Islamic. What surprised me about their expansion was that the conquering was done by different leaders. Also how two of them did it by conquering while another did it peacefully. In Judaism and Christianity I don't believe their ways could have been called "peaceful" they expanded by conquering. This didn't really change how I view this faith or any other. It only made me think.
The Seljuk Turks had a very large amount of land that they had conquered over time. However, there wasn't many converts made to the Islamic religion, because many already were. This differs from Christianity I think because Christians converted many people. But, they are also similar because they both used violence in a way. Seljuk Turks would bring "fighting spirit and fanatical aggression" to the Muslims and one way that Christians would convert was go to a place that had just been destroyed in a battle and be their rescuers of some sort.
Zulema- I too didn't know anything about the Seljuk Turks and learned a lot from them. They were obviously extremely powerful people when they had the right leaders leading.
Stef- The Four Caliphs and the Seljuk Turks are similar in a way. They both were pretty violent. However, the Turks didn't really force everyone into practicing Muslim ways. Good post.
Cuz (a.k.a. Stefani) I agree with you about the similarities about how Christianity, Judaism, and the Islamic religion was spread. Although, I do think that there were also some clever methods were used when spreading Christianity as well. I think some people maybe wanted to convert, but I also agree that it seems like many of the religions used force, and it doesn’t really seem that “right” for religions to be spread by force.
Franklin Well I understand what you mean when you say that you think that Judaism and Christianity was spread more peacefully that the Islamic religion. I also think that there was still quite a bit of “conquering” or “forcing” done by the Jews and Christians, as well.
Kelli: I also didn't know that Islam was spread by conquering. I thought that since they represented their faith so well that others wanted to follow in their example. Still, I admire their dedication as well.
Rosie: I studied the Umayyads as well, and it also made me think about how some leaders used conquering to convert people to Islam, and another leader used more peaceful methods. It would be interesting to see whose method was more successful.
Deep, I see that you did good research on your topic and am impressed on what you found out. For many groups just taking over the area and controlling it was how Islam spread throughout their part during this time. Good job.
Zulema, You also did a very good job researching information over your group of the Selijuk Turks. I didn't know anything about them and am interested on what you post. Good Job.
From the era that I researched I learned that Islam expanded through concurring. It surprised me that Islam had anything in common with Catholic regime. The kings would send their armies to concurred and then send their bishops to convert. The Caliphs operated in the same style. They concurred and then eventually the people converted to Islam. I was also very surprised to find that they concurred so many places. It is quite extraordinary. It did not quite change my views on these religions but it definitely open my eyes about some of their similarities.
Teresita “De los Arboles” – I completely agree that it was a shock to find out how many places they concurred. They only critic that I would give you is that I do not believe that the question did not ask if it changed your views about your religion but, if it changed your views on the other religions. Overall good job.
Jess- Trickery huh, I love that. What you said about Christianity is very true. They completely made it easy for outsiders to convert. I totally agree. I think you did a great job.
IrMa - Although I studied the Four Caliphs, I still see some similarities between it and what you studied (Umayyad Empire). For one, the Four Caliphs had more than one leader just how the Umayyad Empire did. However, the Four Caliphs didn't use the most peaceful methods to spread their ideas. Instead they conquered people.
PeaceLoveAndKatherine.A - Just like you, I was surprised that what I researched had anything in common with Christianity at all. I was also surprised when I learned that they didn't just conquer in one place, but in others as well.
Teresita, I agree with you and I thought that it was interesting how many areas the different groups conquered as well. I think that learning all of this new information didn't really change my views either. I was just very surprised about the new things I found out.
Deep, I thought you did a very good job researching! I also agree with your views on how they conquered, I think that the right was to conquer is to explain the new religion and not be forceful in making people change their religions. Overall, very good job.
Hugo, the fact that an earthquake occurred and destroyed part of the Dome of the Rock and the Great Mosque, after Walid the 1st died, also caught my attention. I have not read further information about it but it seems interesting.
Sally- I also had many interesting and surprising moments when I learned about the Abbasid Dynasty. I didn't hear about the Abassid dynasty or any Islamic dynasty in-general. I learned about the Abassid dynasty and thought it was very interesting also. Good Job.
Diana- The amount of power during the period did catch my attention also. Yes, they did keep it for a very long time. Yes they conquered a ton of countries. I think that now many of the muslims are all over the world but mainly in the Middle East, I don't think there are many that live in Spain. I don't think that it has changed my view on Islam either. Good Job.
Kelli- yeah but like since they killed for they would get a leader they wanted I guess it didn't work like that since they had to kill three times to finally get the one they wanted. Weird instead of like being peaceful about it they just go out and kill him.
Rosie- so you're saying The Umayyad were not really into the New Muslim way and rather worship to another city and to another prophet? Yeah the Muslims weren't very peaceful when it came to expanding like the Christians were.
Deep-- I agree with you about how they spread their dynasty very far was very interesting. I like the fact that you said that gaining power over war is not a good thing.
Sally-- I was surprised because I actually did not read about why Cairo was built. Other than that good job!
Hugo: When Walid the 1st died and an earthquake occurred and destroyed part of the dome of rock also caught my attention, I thought that was interesting.
Jessica: I agree, Muslims spread their religion differently by brute force, and Christianity a more efficient way, but yea I agree that Islam is a "shady part of christianity."
Alex, I agree that it is surprising that they moved the capital away from Damascus, because Damascus was a very important city. It also does make sense that they were in war because change often causes instability.
Katherine, I also found it interesting that the spread of Islam was so similar to the spread of Catholicism. The spread of Islam was very impressive because of the many places they spread it to and it is a remarkable feat for any religion to be able to spread so far and not fail for such a long time.
Irma, I also thought the earthquake was interesting. The number of leaders in the Umayyad empire also impressed me. That leader expanded peacefully surprised me because normally they all expand by conquering. My view has not changed either.
Kevin, I agree with you. It was neat to learn about the history of Muslims. I hadn't really thought of the converting that way but it is true they forced people to follow their faith. My opinion hasn't changed over the faith.
Keyli, I agree that it is interesting that the death of just one ruler would allow other groups to invade. One would think that their empire should be able to maintain some kind of power with any other ruler for longer than they did. Also, I can see where you're going with the idea that Christians tried to get others to follow their beliefs rather than forcing them.
Zulema, Similar to what I responded to Keyli, I think your opinion is also an appropriate way to look at the fact that the death of Malik Shaw was a factor in the decline of the empire. The other emperors just simply weren't fit for the job, because if they were then they would have been able to maintain power with their already strong empire a lot longer.
What really surprised me about the Umayyad Caliphate is the sheer size of the empire during this time period. At it's greatest moment, the empire covered five million square miles. Judaism and Christianity were dwarfed by the size of Islam at the time, and only Christianity remains larger than Islam today. Islam definitely grew faster than Judaism and Christianity. This was mainly because lands were conquered, and the people were forced to convert to Islam. My opinion on any of these faiths has not changed.
Hugo - I was not surprised by the fact that the Umayyad Caliphate just conquered land and converted the people living there. I also didn't previously know that the Islamic people didn't want their religion to spread due to loss of wealth at first, either.
Kevin - I agree with your statement that it was a good idea for Uthman to use his family as "sub-rulers". I think that was intelligent of him because his family members most likely had similar ideas and opinions, and they'd be more likely to share the wealth with each other. Also, like you, my opinion didn't change on any of these religions.
What surprised me about the expansion of Islam during the Abbassid period is that they had lots of power during their time period. It surprised me because they some how managed to keep power for so long. To be exact it's from 749 to 1258 A.D. They also had many countries that they had power in. For example, India, Spain, North Africa, Iranian, and parts of the European world. This compares because most of the followers of Islam actually live in these places now. I do not think that it changes my view over Islam.
ReplyDeleteI thought that it was interesting how after Wallid I died there was an earthquake that destroyed part of the Dome of the Rock and Mosque. What i thought was surprising is that there were a lot of leaders within the Umayyad empire. From what I read, one of the leaders, Umar B. abdal- aziz, expanded Islam peacefully. This has not yet changed my view over Islam.
ReplyDeleteWhat interested me about the topic that I researched was that there were so many places that the Four Righteous Caliphs conquered. It interests me because I don’t know how they could have conquered all that land. This compares in that special tax was put on those who did not follow that Islamic Religion as in the expansion of Judaism and Christianity they also did similar things like that. It does not change my view of faith because I have my own beliefs and its something that I don’t intend to change.
ReplyDeleteWhat surprised me about the Abbasside Dynasty is that they moved their capital from Damascus to Bagdad. That this was a shift in the dynasty and were Islam did spread. That the Abbasside Empire ruled for a long time and was very successful, they moved their capital from Damascus to Bagdad. Then later years they were conquered. The Dynasty did spread Islam, but on the flip side they were in war quite often cause of the spread. But from my research I learned a lot at the same time it’s a lot to take in and to get a good grip on. But I did find it very interesting, on all the information.
ReplyDeleteI had many interesting and surprising moments when learning about the Abbasid Dynasty. I had never heard about the Abbasid dynasty before researching it. The Abbasids ruled for a very long time in different places. Baghdad is one of the main important places for the Abbasids. Other major cities were Cairo and Damascus. Cairo was built in Egypt after the Shi'ites were told to leave by Abbasids. Damascus was the old capital for the Abbasids. Nothing I have learned changed my faith but its very intersting.
ReplyDeleteDiana,
ReplyDeleteI agree that it was surprising for the Abbasids to rule for such a long time without losing control.
Alex,
I agree that changing cities from Damascus to Baghdad would cause a lot of tension for millions of people. Good Job!
What amazed me was the fact that three out of the four leaders were assassinated. This week I also learned that Demascus is another holy city like Mecca. Christianity went through a bunch of Martyrs before they became an official religion. They went through assassinations too. This really didn't change my view on the faith but instead expanded on the ideas of the faith
ReplyDeleteStudents-read the post! It doesn't say how YOUR faith was changed, but rather how YOUR VIEW of the of the faith has changed.
ReplyDeleteI studied the Umayyad Dynasty. It was neat to be able learn about the history of Muslims, and to comprehend more of how their religion spread. I thought that Uthman was a pretty smart guy to spread out his family throughout the territory, and basically put dynastic succesion into play. Judaism and Christianity were more subtle when it came to converting people, but Islam in a way forced their people to follow their faith. They also were not persecuted as the Christians and Jews were. This doesn't really change my opinion about any of the faiths.
ReplyDeleteDuring researching the Abassids, I learned that they were in controll for many years at one time. I think this is fascinating because not many dynasties can hold power that long. Also, I think it was interesting how much control they had and how they were able to conquer other countries, for example, lots of Asia and around India. This compares to the spread of Judaism and Christianity because these places were conquered just like the Abassids conquered. This doesn't change how I feel about the faiths because my opinions are still the same and I think that every religion has its on conquer and expanding methods.
ReplyDeleteWhen researching information about the Four Caliphs, it was interesting to see how their methods of spreading Islam were similar to the means the Secular Kings and Church used in Christianity. The Caliphs conquered people and eventually converted them into Islam. Similar to Christianity whereas the Kings conquered people, then the Church would convert them. It doesn't really change my views on any of faiths. Mainly, it just makes me think that people someway or another are going to be forced into doing something they don't want to.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI guess what surprised me to learn was that Islam had spread through conquering. I'd always thought that it just gradually and peacefully spread throughout parts of Europe and Asia, not that they had conquered countries and huge cities. I think this is almost completely contrary with how Judaism and spread. While they used more peaceful methods, such as explaining about how their religion worked and inviting people into it, Islam used conquering and taxes on other religions to help convert people. However, it does seem closer to Christianity. The secular kings conquered people and spread their religion in almost the same way. This doesn't really change my view on any of the faiths, except furthering my belief that Muslims are very dedicated and hardworking when it comes to their faith.
ReplyDeleteI was somewhat surprised by the things I found out about the Seljuk Turks. Learning about how they declined in power was the most surprising. To think that they're kingdom can slowly collapse after the death of just one ruler is very intriguing. The way they spread was by conquering different places which I think is probably the most common way to do it. I think Judaism and Christianity spread more by bringing others to follow their cultures. My view of these faiths hasn't really changed though because every faith just happens to be different.
ReplyDeleteStefani: I agree with your opinions on how Christianity and Islam spread in almost the same way. I think that oftentimes, people are forced into things they don't want to do, so I agree with you there.
ReplyDeleteCarlos: I was also surprised that three out of the four caliphs were assassinated. It seems pretty crazy to think that one after another was just murdered so that people could have a leader they'd like.
I was fortunate to study the Seljuk Turks, who ruled or took over the Abassids. But it amazes me how many empires were spreading the same religion. Although, they decided to spread Islam by conquering and expanding their domain. But Judaism and Christianity who were able to spread their religion in a more peaceful way, but this does not mean that they didn't conquer. I believe that every religion has their own little of how they conquered to expand their religion. My opinion for the faith thought, does not change, but I do feel like I know more about the religion then how I did before.
ReplyDeleteSally, It really seems like you studied it up on your topic. Good job! I feel like maybe I could even learn from what you said.
ReplyDeleteIrma, The Umayyad seem to have a little something similar to the Seljuk Turks. After one leader died it seemed like they just fell apart. But you seem like you found out some good information.
I did research over the Seljuk Turks. I didn't know anything about them so all of what I learned was new and interesting to me.The empire was at its peak when the first three rulers of the dynasty were in power, they were Tugrul Bey, Alp Arslan, and Malik Shah. It was interesting to me that after the reign of Malik Shah the empire began to decline because in a sense the rulers that followed weren't fit for the job, and it didn't help that the Seljuk Empire was always under constant pressure from the Crusaders in the west, the Arabs in the South and Mongols in the east. The Seljuk Turks were able to spread Islam by conquering other regions, this is similar to how Christianity was spread. The King would conquer a territory and then the Christian Church would go in and convert them. This doesn't really change my opinions on any of the faiths because each faith used a method of spreading their religion and it seemed to work pretty well for all of them.
ReplyDeleteI was not entirely surprised by what the Umayyads did to expand Islam. It was pretty much conquer lands. What surprised me was the fact that they didn't want people at first because they knew that the more people they obtained the more they would have to share their riches with the people. The only person that seemed to expand Islam peacefully was Umar B. abdal-aziz. Well it compared rather similar to the expansion of both Christianity and Judaism except in the fact that they did it forcefully but they did conquer land like them. An interesting fact that caught my eye was when Walid the 1st died and earthquake occurred destroying part of the Dome of the Rock and the great Mosque. It did not change my view on the Islamic faith at all.
ReplyDeleteThere were many things that interested my about the expansion of Islam during the time period I researched. I researched the Abassids Calph this was thought to be the people who were Muhammed's Uncle's descendants. They beat the Ummyads to gain control. Thad power for a very long time. They spread from West Asia all the Way to North Africa. I thought it was very interesting. The expanision processes were very different. The Christians tried to convert. The Abassids just conquered an area and ruled it. I think that using war to gain territory is not very helpful so I would say convert the people who want to be converted or atleast teach them about the religion and expand in ways that the people who want to be Muslim can be Muslim by being loyal to territory. This concept itself does not change how I view the different beliefs but the whole learning about the Hajj and just learning does because it explains what the religion is about.
ReplyDeleteWell, what I learned about the Four Caliphs is that they spread the Muslim religion by conquering. I think that this method was quite different from how Christianity and Judaism was spread. It seems to me like Christianity was spread more through trickery, than brute force. Those spreading the Christian religion tried to make the transition easy so that a lot of people would do it. Honestly, it doesn’t change the way I feel about the Muslim faith, or Christianity or Judaism, for that matter. It may not look so good that the Muslim religion was spread by force, but let’s not forget that there are shady parts to Christianity’s past as well.
ReplyDeleteJessica-- I liked what you said about how Christianity spread more through trickery then brute force. In my blog I said that in spread through force but they didn't directly conquer the people themselves, but I do understand what you mean about how it conquered through trickery because the Kings would take over a territory and while the people were at their weakest point they would them convert them.
ReplyDeleteKeyli-- I too founded it very surprising but at the same time interesting that a whole empire could collapse following the death of one man, who in this case was Malik Shah.
What interested me about Islamic expansion during the Seljuk Turk dynasty was both the fact that they had very little to no people to convert over the vas amount land that they initially controlled, seeing as how most were already Muslims. However, it was very captivating to me how they managed to take over the Byzantine Empire despite their significantly smaller army. Because conquering was the way in which they gained control, I believe Christianity and Islam share that characteristic. Christianity was also spread to non-Christians by defeating. I understand that that was a common way to obtain jurisdiction in different reasons so it does not change my views about the faith.
ReplyDeleteThe Umayyad clan was not from Mecca and they didn't always follow Muhammad or weren't always Islamic. What surprised me about their expansion was that the conquering was done by different leaders. Also how two of them did it by conquering while another did it peacefully. In Judaism and Christianity I don't believe their ways could have been called "peaceful" they expanded by conquering. This didn't really change how I view this faith or any other. It only made me think.
ReplyDeleteThe Seljuk Turks had a very large amount of land that they had conquered over time. However, there wasn't many converts made to the Islamic religion, because many already were. This differs from Christianity I think because Christians converted many people. But, they are also similar because they both used violence in a way. Seljuk Turks would bring "fighting spirit and fanatical aggression" to the Muslims and one way that Christians would convert was go to a place that had just been destroyed in a battle and be their rescuers of some sort.
ReplyDeleteZulema-
ReplyDeleteI too didn't know anything about the Seljuk Turks and learned a lot from them. They were obviously extremely powerful people when they had the right leaders leading.
Stef-
The Four Caliphs and the Seljuk Turks are similar in a way. They both were pretty violent. However, the Turks didn't really force everyone into practicing Muslim ways. Good post.
Cuz (a.k.a. Stefani)
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about the similarities about how Christianity, Judaism, and the Islamic religion was spread. Although, I do think that there were also some clever methods were used when spreading Christianity as well. I think some people maybe wanted to convert, but I also agree that it seems like many of the religions used force, and it doesn’t really seem that “right” for religions to be spread by force.
Franklin
Well I understand what you mean when you say that you think that Judaism and Christianity was spread more peacefully that the Islamic religion. I also think that there was still quite a bit of “conquering” or “forcing” done by the Jews and Christians, as well.
Kelli: I also didn't know that Islam was spread by conquering. I thought that since they represented their faith so well that others wanted to follow in their example. Still, I admire their dedication as well.
ReplyDeleteRosie: I studied the Umayyads as well, and it also made me think about how some leaders used conquering to convert people to Islam, and another leader used more peaceful methods. It would be interesting to see whose method was more successful.
Deep,
ReplyDeleteI see that you did good research on your topic and am impressed on what you found out. For many groups just taking over the area and controlling it was how Islam spread throughout their part during this time. Good job.
Zulema,
You also did a very good job researching information over your group of the Selijuk Turks. I didn't know anything about them and am interested on what you post. Good Job.
From the era that I researched I learned that Islam expanded through concurring. It surprised me that Islam had anything in common with Catholic regime. The kings would send their armies to concurred and then send their bishops to convert. The Caliphs operated in the same style. They concurred and then eventually the people converted to Islam. I was also very surprised to find that they concurred so many places. It is quite extraordinary. It did not quite change my views on these religions but it definitely open my eyes about some of their similarities.
ReplyDeleteTeresita “De los Arboles” – I completely agree that it was a shock to find out how many places they concurred. They only critic that I would give you is that I do not believe that the question did not ask if it changed your views about your religion but, if it changed your views on the other religions. Overall good job.
ReplyDeleteJess- Trickery huh, I love that. What you said about Christianity is very true. They completely made it easy for outsiders to convert. I totally agree. I think you did a great job.
IrMa -
ReplyDeleteAlthough I studied the Four Caliphs, I still see some similarities between it and what you studied (Umayyad Empire). For one, the Four Caliphs had more than one leader just how the Umayyad Empire did. However, the Four Caliphs didn't use the most peaceful methods to spread their ideas. Instead they conquered people.
PeaceLoveAndKatherine.A -
Just like you, I was surprised that what I researched had anything in common with Christianity at all. I was also surprised when I learned that they didn't just conquer in one place, but in others as well.
Teresita, I agree with you and I thought that it was interesting how many areas the different groups conquered as well. I think that learning all of this new information didn't really change my views either. I was just very surprised about the new things I found out.
ReplyDeleteDeep, I thought you did a very good job researching! I also agree with your views on how they conquered, I think that the right was to conquer is to explain the new religion and not be forceful in making people change their religions. Overall, very good job.
kelli,
ReplyDeleteI also thought that Islam spread gradually. It was interesting to read about the leaders of Empires and how they helped spread Islam.
Hugo,
ReplyDeletethe fact that an earthquake occurred and destroyed part of the Dome of the Rock and the Great Mosque, after Walid the 1st died, also caught my attention. I have not read further information about it but it seems interesting.
Diana- Nice length on your paragraph. I liked your opinion. Nice Job.
ReplyDeleteIrma- I did not know that but now I do. Your opinion was well stated. Good Job.
Sally- I also had many interesting and surprising moments when I learned about the Abbasid Dynasty. I didn't hear about the Abassid dynasty or any Islamic dynasty in-general. I learned about the Abassid dynasty and thought it was very interesting also. Good Job.
ReplyDeleteDiana- The amount of power during the period did catch my attention also. Yes, they did keep it for a very long time. Yes they conquered a ton of countries. I think that now many of the muslims are all over the world but mainly in the Middle East, I don't think there are many that live in Spain. I don't think that it has changed my view on Islam either. Good Job.
Kelli- yeah but like since they killed for they would get a leader they wanted I guess it didn't work like that since they had to kill three times to finally get the one they wanted. Weird instead of like being peaceful about it they just go out and kill him.
ReplyDeleteRosie- so you're saying The Umayyad were not really into the New Muslim way and rather worship to another city and to another prophet? Yeah the Muslims weren't very peaceful when it came to expanding like the Christians were.
Deep--
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about how they spread their dynasty very far was very interesting. I like the fact that you said that gaining power over war is not a good thing.
Sally--
I was surprised because I actually did not read about why Cairo was built. Other than that good job!
Hugo: When Walid the 1st died and an earthquake occurred and destroyed part of the dome of rock also caught my attention, I thought that was interesting.
ReplyDeleteJessica: I agree, Muslims spread their religion differently by brute force, and Christianity a more efficient way, but yea I agree that Islam is a "shady part of christianity."
Alex,
ReplyDeleteI agree that it is surprising that they moved the capital away from Damascus, because Damascus was a very important city. It also does make sense that they were in war because change often causes instability.
Katherine,
I also found it interesting that the spread of Islam was so similar to the spread of Catholicism. The spread of Islam was very impressive because of the many places they spread it to and it is a remarkable feat for any religion to be able to spread so far and not fail for such a long time.
Irma,
ReplyDeleteI also thought the earthquake was interesting. The number of leaders in the Umayyad empire also impressed me. That leader expanded peacefully surprised me because normally they all expand by conquering. My view has not changed either.
Kevin,
I agree with you. It was neat to learn about the history of Muslims. I hadn't really thought of the converting that way but it is true they forced people to follow their faith. My opinion hasn't changed over the faith.
Keyli,
ReplyDeleteI agree that it is interesting that the death of just one ruler would allow other groups to invade. One would think that their empire should be able to maintain some kind of power with any other ruler for longer than they did. Also, I can see where you're going with the idea that Christians tried to get others to follow their beliefs rather than forcing them.
Zulema,
Similar to what I responded to Keyli, I think your opinion is also an appropriate way to look at the fact that the death of Malik Shaw was a factor in the decline of the empire. The other emperors just simply weren't fit for the job, because if they were then they would have been able to maintain power with their already strong empire a lot longer.
What really surprised me about the Umayyad Caliphate is the sheer size of the empire during this time period. At it's greatest moment, the empire covered five million square miles. Judaism and Christianity were dwarfed by the size of Islam at the time, and only Christianity remains larger than Islam today. Islam definitely grew faster than Judaism and Christianity. This was mainly because lands were conquered, and the people were forced to convert to Islam. My opinion on any of these faiths has not changed.
ReplyDeleteHugo - I was not surprised by the fact that the Umayyad Caliphate just conquered land and converted the people living there. I also didn't previously know that the Islamic people didn't want their religion to spread due to loss of wealth at first, either.
ReplyDeleteKevin - I agree with your statement that it was a good idea for Uthman to use his family as "sub-rulers". I think that was intelligent of him because his family members most likely had similar ideas and opinions, and they'd be more likely to share the wealth with each other. Also, like you, my opinion didn't change on any of these religions.