Tuesday, November 16, 2010
Luther & his ideas
First, would have you been willing to have the Holy Roman Emperor cut off your head rather than give up your personal beliefs about your own faith? Explain your answer. (Remember, you are a noble, and have a lot of land and money to lose). Second, if you didn't believe in Luther's ideas, would you still be willing to use those ideas as a leverage against the Holy Roman Emperor and compromise your own faith?
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I would have been willing to have the HRE cut off my head. Even if I had a lot of land and money. If I were following my own faith, which is the same as Luther's, then I should give up my material belongings because they had no value in heaven. If I didn't believe in Luther's ideas, I would probably not use Luther's ideas because I would rather stay loyal to my beliefs, since that was what the huge debate was all about in the first place.
ReplyDeleteIf I was a prince and I had to choose, I would have been willing to have the Holy Roman Emperor cut off my head rather than giving up my personal beliefs because I would not be able to live with something I do not believe. The land, and money, I wouldn't care about as long as I stuck with what I believed in. Also the people would be on my side and like Machiavelli mentioned in his book, it is better to have the people on your side than the lords.
ReplyDeleteThough, if I didn't believe in Luther's ideas, I would be willing to use those ideas as a leverage against the Holy Roman Emperor and compromise my own faith because with all the bibles around and people being able to read them, I wouldn't want them against me.
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ReplyDeleteI would have been willing to have the Holy Roman Emperor cut off my head rather than give up my personal beliefs about my own faith. I'd rather lose everything I won than lose my faith. I could always find another way to survive without all those riches and land. Its better to have all the people on your side then just a few kings. The people will always be growing and becoming bigger in number but the kings will always have the same number of members.
ReplyDeleteIf I didn't believe in Luther's ideas I think I would use them as a leverage against the HRE and compromise my own faith. I'd rather have the people on my side then against me.
It's easy to say that you would've been willing to sacrifice your life for you beliefs, but it's hard to say what we would really do in that situation. Kind of like the holocaust, everyone today says they would've stood up for the Jews and helped them, but in reality, even though there were many against the holocaust, few stood up for it. It's hard to say if any of those men would've risked decapitation if there weren't so many others. There is a phrase that states "there is power in numbers." It's easy to stand up for what you believe when there are others by your side, but I have to give credit to the first guy who stood up by himself. I understand that the RCC was very corrupt and maybe I would've stood up to them, but definitely not if i was risking my life, and not FOR my religion...but against their's.
ReplyDeleteI would say that I would go ahead and take the risk of having the emperor cut off my head. It's easier said than done but that's what I would do. I would be willing to risk my life to stand up for what I believe in. It's kind of hard to know what I would do if I didn't believe in what Luther did. It also kind of depends on where I would stand with the beliefs I have other than the Church. If I believed that everything the Church believed in was true, then I would probably stand against Luther. Some people might just stand up to the emperor regardless of what they believe just because they don't like him or the way that he runs things. I am with Luther on this whole thing so I would stand against the Emperor and risk my head for my own beliefs.
ReplyDeleteJessica,
ReplyDeleteI agree that its not easy to actually do. We all say that we would do that but would we really if we were in that situation? Very good job and good points.)
Rosie,
Good point in saying that its more important to have people with you than princes and other nobility people. It's kinda like the revolt that the people had from the movie. The people seemed to be out of control, but they were making themselves noticed. Of course, they were killed because of what they did but they have more numbers than the Noblilty. Good job! :)
Sally,
ReplyDeleteI agree with your standing with Luther on this whole thing, I do, too. I can also understand people who wanted to stand up the Emperor agreeing with Luther, too. It just makes sense for people to take an opportunity if they're in search of power.
Jessica,
I agree that it would be extremely difficult to do if we were put in the actual situation. The first guy must've been extremely brave, and I admire him for that.
Personally I would not let the Roman Emperor cut off my head cause I want to live, but I would still go along believing what I believe in secret. I would also try to get everyone on my side then try to revolt and they couldn't do anything to me since I have all this support from the people. Since I am a Catholic I don't believe I wouldn't. Although some rules are different now a days. I would do what I wanted but also do it religiously. Since I am a noble no one can judge me because I am superior than most people.
ReplyDeleteI would rather have the HRE cut off my head than give up my personal beliefs. I want my right to religion. If someone wanted to take that away then there would be no point in living anyway. If I didn't agree with what the other religion was would it be right to just cut off my head, I don't think so. The HRE would look really bad if they cut off my head for just stating my beliefs. Since I am portrayed as a noble. The HRE would have faith in me. They lose a very vital part of society if they killed me along with my other nobles. I agreed with what Luther did. If I would put myself in his shoes I would be very proud of myself just because I stated what many people have been wanting to say for many years. This would also make me feel accomplished. So, I say cut off my head because I don't want to follow the rules of your religion especially when a lot of it isn't stated in scriptures.
ReplyDeleteKelli,
ReplyDeleteI agree and disagree with you. Yes I would also be willing to have my head cut off despite the money and land. What I don't really agree with is not using Luther's ideas even if you didn't believe them. Maybe I would do the same but then I wouldn't the people revolting against me so I would just use them.
Sally,
It is easier said than done that you would let them cut your head off. It is true how if you didn't believe in Luther's but you did in what the Church was saying you'd probably go with the Church. What I wonder is what if you don't stand with Luther nor the Church? Would you join one of them or stand on your own?
Honestly, I would allow the HRE to cut-off my head. The idea of following someone, with a different view, would be disturbing. During the movie, I strongly believe what Luther was saying, and that faith is much more important then indulgence. I think that indulgence is also important, but only if you strongly have faith in the religion. BUT, if I believed what Luther was saying was outrageous, I would still have confronted the king, knowing what I had at stakes. Also, the HRE, would look pretty darn bad, if he had chosen to cut-off my head.
ReplyDeleteSally- I agree on what you say, a lot of what Luther was saying was pretty accurate and made sense. BUT, even if I did not go with what he said, I would still have taken the risk to cut-off my head. As a noble, my intentions are still to have the king closer to me in power, so this was just another chance for me, as a noble, to gain more power over the king.
ReplyDeleteJessica- Yeah, very true, even though we can discuss what we feel and what we would have done, does not mean if we really would have done it. king. Luther was really a something. Standing up to the king and risking losing his life is pretty big.
In response for the first question, if I was placed in that specific position without any time to think about what was doing and there was a significant chance that the Holy Roman Emperor would have cut off my head, I can honestly say I would have most likely chose to keep my life because that would probably be my first reaction. However, if I was aware of the fact that it most likely would not happen due to logical reasoning and better odds, I probably would have taken the chance. Concerning the second question, my answer pretty much stays the same in the sense that I wouldn't risk my life if the odds were that I was to get my head chopped off. Yet, I have no problem admitting that for the time being I would compromise my faith to as a leverage against the Holy Roman Emperor. I say that because an intelligent noble would be capable of finding ways to bring his/her faith back.
ReplyDeleteIf I was a follower of Martin Luther's beliefs, they I would have let the Holy Roman Empire chop of my head. I wouldn't be able to pretend that I believed in something I didn't. If I did have all of there material items and all this wealth and land, I would have given it up because it doesn't matter what I had or how wealthy I was in the afterlife. I would risk my life for what I believe. Because I am not a follower of Luther's ideas anyway, I don't think that I would switch my faith to overthrow, but figure out how to do it some other way.
ReplyDeleteI think that it's easy to say that I would stand against the HRE and risk getting my head cut off because I have seen that the emperor didn't really cut off their heads. I would risk getting my head cut off though because the main reason the German princes did this was to gain power but I would do it because I would support my religion and risk my life like Christians are asked to do. However, I think this would be a very tough choice because I would want to live, but if I had time to think about the choice I might contradict my first instinct to stand up against it. Furthermore, I give the main credit to the first one who stood up again the emperor because he created hope for the princes who followed that their "strength and numbers" ( Jessica Metzger) would make a difference. Second, if I was asked to stand up to the emperor to defend Luther and gain power I would do this even if I didn't believe in the religion. Once you had gained the power needed by standing up to the emperor, you could go back living and believing in the faith you are devoted to.
ReplyDeleteOlivia,
ReplyDeleteI like that you say time being, as in you would somewhat pretend until you figured out a good plan to further use. Intelligent. Good post.
Diana,
Your post made me giggle because you sound so hardcore. That is a very well thought out plan, but how can you be secret with your faith and have people you tell to revolt and not expect word to get out? I think it's a very good idea though and it wasn't like everyone else's post.
Jessica, I loved your post. I agreed with you in my blog that strength in numbers added to the hope that the Emperor would see how the Princes were reacting and standing up for Luther and by this the Emperor wouldn't cut off their heads.
ReplyDeleteDiana, your post was very witty and thought out. I liked how you had a different solution to this problem and you stated it very well. I understood how you would try to get supporters and then you'd be covered. Very strategic, I liked it.
Everyone would like to say that they would let the Holy Roman Emperor cut off their head rather then give up their beliefs about their faith. Although my beliefs are important I don't know if I would be able to sacrifice my own life for them, and even if i did who is to say that my death alone would make a difference. In all reality it probably wouldn't unless I had supporters who i knew would stand up against him in my absence. I would be willing to compromise my beliefs for a while and pretend I followed Luther to gain leverage against the Emperor because this would assert our freedom from him and once this was done I could go on with my own beliefs.
ReplyDeleteIn this situation, it is hard to say what I would do. I would want to easily say that I would have let the Holy Roman Emperor cut off my head, but I don't know what I would have done at that moment. I know that I would have been able to bluff because I know that the Holy Roman Emperor would not cut off my head, but I ask myself would I really be willing to let him cut off my head? Of course the right answer for this would be to say yes because you're fighting and would die for what you believe, but letting someone who has more power than you still have what they want wouldn't be good. I think maybe if I was alive back then, I may have let them because it was "normal" for people to be decapitated when they revolted against the Holy Roman Emperor. Nowadays, since that is not common, I don't know what I would do.
ReplyDeleteDiana,
ReplyDeleteYou introduced an idea to me that I may have never thought of. Although it would appear as though you were either afraid of being killed or truly agreed with the Holy Roman Emperor, you still would have lived, thus if you believed in Luther's ideas you could continue to spread them after everyone else died. Very interesting.
Jessica,
I like your post...a lot. I think, that this question can be viewed in very many different ways, and you took it as not standing up for what you believing but standing against what you disagree with, so you chose to live. I also agree with what you had to say about the power of numbers. I can compare it to my thoughts about the odds of what would actually happen. Awesome reasoning.
Kelli-- I respect that through everything you would remain loyal to your beliefs.
ReplyDeleteDiana-- I really liked your post, its easy for anyone to say that they would allow the Emperor to chop their head off although many honesty probably wouldn't if they were put in the situation, so i like that you were truthful in your post :)
Madi- I'm glad you said what you said because pretending to not believe or believe would just seem wrong, in a way smart, but mostly wrong.
ReplyDeleteKelli-You had a good point in your blog, but the question is still would you REALLY have let the Holy Roman Emperor cut off your head?
If I were a Noble with a family I would not let the Holy Roman Emperor cut off my head. I would rather give up my personal beliefs about my own faith then have my own head cut off. I would do this because I really would not like to leave my family alone. Also standing up for my personal beliefs would not really change anything unless other people also were with me. I would rather lie to the Emperor because I am no good if I'm dead, but if I'm not then I could help other people in bring down the Emperor so that we may all have our right to believe what we want. If I didn't believe in Luther's ideas of course I would use them as leverage against the Holy Roman Emperor and compromise your own faith. This way I could gain more power.
ReplyDeleteI would honestly have no idea what I would do at that instance. As many people were saying its easy to just say that I would stand up and let the HRE cut my head off but in reality would I or let alone all of you really do it without hesitating? I can personally say that I do agree with Luther's ideas because I have been taught the same things. If I lived back in time then I would still agree due to the fact that there were many political benefits that came from siding with Luther. If I didn't believe in Luther's ideas than I would still side with Luther because of the fact that the majority of the people sided with Luther and of the whole strength in numbers ideas. Even if I were a noble it wouldn't matter about my land or money because I would have no use for them in heaven. So in the end all I would do is let them cut off my head.
ReplyDeleteDiana- I liked your opinion but I don't agree with some of it. Like the part about nobody being able to judge you. That is not true, or course people will still judge you and also other Nobles could kill you if you were still doing stuff in secret and they found out. Good Job! =)
ReplyDeleteFranklin- Your whole opinion was nice and to the point. Are you sure though that you would let them cut off your head? I mean what good are you dead? If you chose to live then maybe you could have helped start a revolt. Also they can kill you secretly and not let anyone know that they killed you. Great Job! =)
I think that it would be very hard to lay down your life but to die for something you believed in. Is much greater, I think cause you do die with some dignity. That the witnesses watching me die or laying my life on the line, will carry on my name. So I would rather choose death from the HRE, having my head removed. This will show my bravery and how much I cherished my beliefs and ideas. I do agree with Luther’s ideas on how he felt that the RCC was corrupted and wrong with the clergy. That giving people new ideas and new hope towards God. To save people lives and hopes is a gift itself. Which means if the HRE did kill me that I died form something or tried at least. So if I died, it would be better for one man to die for something rather to have a whole nation perish not knowing the truth.
ReplyDeleteHugo,
ReplyDeleteI can really relate with your post cause, it would be very hard to choose and when it came down to the decision of dying for what I believed in. I would some what hesitate. Thinking if it would be for a better cause or not. That would it make a difference, would it really help or not. Good post by the way.
Franklin,
I really like how you would lay your life for your beliefs, but it would also be very hard thinking that it was all over if the HRE gave the word. But it does all come back if you do believe what Luther says and if that you thought his ideas were good enough to die for.
Alex,
ReplyDeleteI completely understand where you are coming from about how to die with dignity for your religion. Lets say if you were the only one who stood up to the HRE, would you still be willing to give up your very life for your religion? Great post too.
Teresita,
I see where you are going with the whole not wanting your head cut off but I must disagree with you. Don't forget back then families were not so greatly bonded and your power would sooner or later be taken from the HRE if Luther's ideas had not gained favor by everybody else. Also how would you bring down the emperor if you knew this was an opportunity to take the emperor down and you would just let it go? Many things to think about but nice posting what you would do honestly.
I would allow someone to cut my head off because of my faith. I'm willing to give myself up because I won't give my religion up. My faith is what I believe in and no one can change my opinion on what I believe in. In the political way yes I would use his ideas as leverage because I gain more out of it. In the human perspective I wouldn't because as I stated above I would give up my head for my faith so why would I go and use someone else's ideas?
ReplyDeleteI would rather have had my head chopped off, because then i wouldnt have to be forced to believe in something i actually didnt believe in. Yes, iknow id loose my wealth and stuff but its not like that wealth will last for ever. If i cant practice what i believe in, itd be hard because so many things we do correlates with what we believe in. And as for Luther's ideas, i think i just might have gone with his ideas if that meant i could gain more power and stuff.
ReplyDeleteMadi,
Its hard to believe in something you dont. I agree wit your decision on having our heads chopped off.
Olivia,
I kind of see where youre saying that you would have picked life over death. I can say i also might have said that, just because it is first instinct.
It's hard for me to answer this question seeing as I don't really follow a religion and I'm not a religious person by any means. No one wants to die, so it's easy for people's first instinct to not have their heads cut off and live. But, when personal beliefs and faith are mixed in it makes people think harder. I can honestly say that I would not want my head cut off. In this case the HRE would look worse for wanting to cut off someone's head than someone standing up to them, at least the way I look at it. Also, if I wanted my beliefs to be heard during that time, what good is it going to do if I get my head chopped off and die? Plus if I had a family I wouldn't want to leave them. So I would risk being probably excommunicated from the Church rather than dying because my beliefs contrasted with the majority of people's during that time. Eventually I would probably get killed by someone who didn't agree with my views, but I would rather die knowing that I attempted to spread my ideas rather than not even trying. Politically, it would be wise to use Luther's ideas as leverage against the HRE.
ReplyDeleteRory - I agree with you on the whole not wanting your head cut off, especially if I had a family. However, I don't really think you'd be lying to the Emperor about not agreeing with him, because he'd know seeing as you didn't want to get your head chopped off. There are power in numbers so you might have been able to eventually bring down the Empire to let people believe in what they wanted, given that there would be people who agree with you. Good post.
Carlos - Although I don't really agree with you, you managed to make some good points. First off, going back to how I don't agree with you, you said that you'd be willing to have your head chopped off and give up yourself but not your religion. Well, wouldn't you be giving up everything, including your religion, because you're willing to die? Just a thought. I also have my faith, or lack there of, and wouldn't change it just because the risk of death if hanging over me. Good post.
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ReplyDeleteLife is all about taking risks. In some instance if you don’t take a leap of faith , then you remain stuck. In order for Luther’s plait to progress...something drastic had to happen. I think that they first prince was the only one that can truly be called brave. The others either joined because everyone else was doing it or because of the political gain. I think if I would have been one of them I probably would have hesitated. Why was I doing this? Was I doing this for the right reasons? Then I’d the plunge. Why not. Everything ends, why not die for something you believe in. If the princes were murdered the Emperor would still lose his power. That’s what it was all about. As to the second question, I think that no leverage is worth turning your back on what you believe.
ReplyDeleteRory (Teresita )- I think that you are very right. Family should be above religious and political gain. I think you made your point very well.
Pez ( Stefani) - You were able to say exactly what I wanted ..in a short book. Great job girl.
Franklin-
ReplyDeleteI like your post. The thing I like about it is the fact that you said faith is more important. In fact it is more important than trying to get money.
Kelli-
I like how you are honest about not using Luther's ideas just to get rid of the church.
I would rather die than to renounce my personal beliefs. It would be the ultimate test, the most perfect way for me to seal my testimony of faith. My personal beliefs defy every part of me, and I don't see how I'd be able to live with myself if I were to give them up. Even if I was a noble with lots of land, money, and power. I'm not sure if I understand the second part right. From what I get the question is "would I support the ideas of another religion to oppose the HRE?" To answer this question, I'd have to say no, I wouldn't. There might be a lot to gain, but again it would mean compromising my own standards. Part of my personal beliefs include the fact that I only have one faith, and that I don't go and worship or support anyone else.
ReplyDeleteKatherine-- I support what you said for the most part, but the only part I slightly disagree with would be that just because the other princes weren't the first to say they'd die, that doesn't mean that the rest of them weren't brave. Sometimes an act of braveness could be supporting those who are brave (like the first prince to kneel).
ReplyDeleteDeep-- I liked your statement that you'd rather die than give up your beliefs, because if you couldn't practice the religion you wanted to then there'd be no point in living.
Keyli
ReplyDeleteWay to be honest in your post. I think a lot of people put that they would have their head cut off for their religion, because they believe that that would be the right thing to do, but who knows would people would really do in that situation? Good post :)
Diana
I like your solution. You stick to your own beliefs while not having to lose your life. Of course, you still might lose your life if you got caught, but your at least willing to try to survive without sacrificing your beliefs. Good job :)
stefani,
ReplyDeleteI really like the way you wrote your post and explained why it would be hard for you to chose.
Kevin- I think you are right. Some of the others were brave as well. The problem is though, we'll never know who did it for the cause and who did it for their own personal gain.
ReplyDeleteCarlos,
ReplyDeleteI like your points, specially the one "why would you use someone else's ideas"
But I think that anybody that wants power would.
Kevin- You have a good point there. Why take the ideas of someone else and use it for yourself when you state that you would have your head cut off for your faith.
ReplyDeleteKatherine- The more people the merrier right? If it was only one person he probably would've sliced your head off but if a group is willing to get their head cut off then the movement is stronger. Good point
No, I would have done as Machiavelli said and would have appeared to go along with the Holy Roman Emperor because of the amount of land & power that is at stake. Also, it would also take a great deal of courage and confidence in one's faith to be willing to sacrifice ourselves. I would go the way that Machiavelli said was smartest to do. Also, because I would be a noble, it wouldn't affect me and I could still do whatever I wanted, as long as no one noticed.
ReplyDeleteMy response to the first question is no, I would not have been willing to give my head in return for my own personal beliefs. I would have followed the rules of the Roman Catholic Church, and kept my own personal beliefs and opinions to myself. I would do this because my public display of faith isn't important, what I really believe is important, so why risk my life when I have so much to lose? Although, I would be willing to put my life on the line with Luther's, if other important nobles did it first. If many nobles were doing it, I would then gain some power without being likely to die because the Holy Roman Emperor wouldn't kill that many nobles just to stop Luther.
ReplyDeleteIsabel - I agree with you completely. With already being in decent power, it would be easy to be able to practice your own religion and not get caught doing it.
ReplyDeleteKevin - I understand where you are coming from. If I were a more religious person, I would probably feel the exact same way you do. If your beliefs are what make you yourself, then stand by them.